For me personally, life without religion is many times more enjoyable than life with religion.
I'm no longer worried about the state of my soul with respect to the afterlife, and even more so that I'm not worried about anyone else's soul. I find myself able to accept people as people instead of as "unsaved people" or "nonbelievers". I no longer have to have an agenda behind talking to people, I'm not trying to save anyones soul anymore.
I find the idea that there is no inherent meaning to life very stabilising and motivating, as it gives me the freedom to do what I like with my life without the fear of departing from some celestial being's divine plan.
Things that I previously thought important I find myself dissatisfied with. One striking example is saying grace over dinner. Instead of paying my respects to a god, I would much rather pay my respects to the person who prepared the meal, or give thanks to the person who is paying for it.
I have more respect for life, and human life in particular. Now that I realise that this life is all that we have I treasure mine much more. I'm beginning to understand the value of life and how precious it is.
I have an increased interest in the way the world works, and with the universe at large. Before, I was content with the answer that "God did it" and never bothered to really look past skin-depth for some things.
Those are the first things that come to mind anyway.
i never ever thought that i would hear words like this coming out of your mouth. To the extent where i wasnt quite sure whether you were taking the piss.
ReplyDeleteinteresting though
Tom Larsen
You have obviously thought about this alot, your view is very in depth, not just "i dnt wana b a christian because i hate going to church" or something like that.. What your saying i agree with (but i havent seen anywhere near as much of the christian life side of things) - i notice when talking to most devout christians, you cant talk to thm for more than 2-3minutes without being asked your religeous views.. it is as if this is all they are thinking about, rather than you as a person. As my mum says, too many are trying to get enough 'brownie points' to feel satisfied they will make it to heaven.. As you know alot about the bible, your arguments will be mre meaningful. I think we should all read some of it, so when we are referring to contradictions and things, we can actually quote some...but i dnt know if i could ever read the whole thing. :/
ReplyDelete-Mark
do u nt think you're just taking the easy way out? being a christian is nt being religious they are two vry diffrnt thngs nd i personally cnt stand religion either. bt u once knew all this. and as for the dinner comment yes u should thank those preparing it bt also hw it was provided, we once went thru such a hard tym had no money for food and totally had to pray nd rely on god to come thru for us nd he did big time! we wud of had no food and lost our home, so i think its very important to remember who is blessing you too! but evn so if you do no longer believe that is up to you bt do u feel writng these blogs is fair to others? i knw it has made sum ppl quite sad and angry... perhaps ppl should b left to make their own opinions witout ideas bein put into their heads, as thats almost as bad as "religious" ppl wudnt u say.
ReplyDeleteand yes life is very precious and should be valued no matter wat u believe.
Thanks for the comments Tom and Mark.
ReplyDeleteNow. Anonymous.
Do I think I'm taking the easy way out? No, I'm not taking any way anywhere. I remember when I was a christian being slightly confused when people said christianity isn't a religion, because they obviously have no idea what religion is.
I obviously cannot comment on your situation since I did not experience what you did. But if you think that an analogy like that is going to convince anyone that god exists you are seriously mistaken. Anyway, why would 'god' 'come through' and 'bless' you in a wealthy western country, with social welfare and communities to help you out, and not 'come through' and 'bless' the other half of the world who still live in poverty, not getting food at all, and dying to curable diseases.
I don't see how me writing this blog is unfair to anyone, or even how it could be. I'm not forcing anyone to read this, and it is my personal thoughts and opinions, if people are offended by what I choose not to believe in, then it is their problem not mine. I don't mean that in the sense that I don't care about other people, I'm not writing this blog to hurt people. If people are sad and angry about what I believe, then again it's their problem not mine, and they need help to see the world clearly.
People SHOULD be left to make their own minds up, based on FACT and EVIDENCE. Two things that religion and christianity are completely lacking in. Me talking about my opinions, and views is nothing at all like religious people. I never once said that everyone should think like me, or that if you don't think like me you'll burn in hell, which is what christianity teaches.
If you have anything further to say, feel free to leave another comment.
PS. I would have been nicer if you'd signed your name instead of leaving it Anonymous.
interesting views. it is indeed sad that you have come to those conclusions only after you have disregarded the Lord. God should be the one who makes all of this make sense, not be the person who we run and turn from because we have un-answered questions.
ReplyDeleteit seems to me like you actually care about the world you live in, the life you have.
These things in came from God himself.. your actually on earth to do something about them... its nice to say on your blog that you care about all the diseases and poverty in the world, but are you going to do anything about it? or just point your finger at the God who you think no longer exists and tell him its all his fault?
life truely isnt simple.. if we live in a simple world, we havnt really experienced it yet.. we get hit with reality, with complexity.. why is there poverty? why did my aunty just die of cancer.. God i thought you loved her and would heal her?
we need to go past complexity.. to simplicity after complexity.. that despite our questioning, we know deep down that yes, God does exist, and he 1) to know us and 2) us to love the world were living in..
How do you think Jesus felt as he cryed in the garden to his Father.. id say he was in complexity. id say He didnt have all the answers.. but he simply trusted... and because he trusted, the God who put on flesh, who put on skin and bone, and emotion and logic, suffered and died for us and was raised again and now sits at the right hand of the father interceding for you and I..
mmm.. just a few thoughts.. (fyi im a different anonymous to the other anonymous's)
What on earth do you mean by 'complexity'?
ReplyDeleteI can't blame god for anything considering I don't believe it exists.
I find it sad that you think it's sad that I care about the world for reasons other than a divine being is going to judge me. If that makes sense.
Hey guys and girls that comment kjs blogs first of all i just have to say just so you know where im coming from i am a christian.
ReplyDeleteSeriously i know kj and nothing you say will convince him unless you bring facts into it without facts you aint achieving jack im sorry im being mean but its just the truth your just wasting time and effort typing your experiences and about love and all that. Like i said kjs a factual guy and he aint closed minded so if you want to convince him that the bible is true and god is true bring evidence, the hard facts.
I know someone can do it and all you others that cant go find someone who can then write back what youve found out
Im not being mean im just being practical :)
Peace
hmmmm.. never said anything about judgement..
ReplyDeletei was talking about the implicit value that you place on life and creation.. where does it come from? it didnt just appear the day you were born.. cats dont seem to have much value for the earth.. neither do apes.. I was saying that the reason for your care is because it was placed there by something or someone, which inevitably was God himself.. but he didnt put it there so you could stare at it from a distance and blame him for it (which is what you seem to be doing) but rather to do something about it with the rest of creation who also care about it..
on a different note - when i said 'complexity' i was referring to the state of mind or emotion that we can get into when we discover we hold multiple 'truths' which at the same time are different..
when you used to believe there was a God you held that one truth in one hand.. then you saw that the world was corrupt so you held that in a different hand. Then the fact that how can God be this, if I also see this etc etc..
We hold more than one truth in tension and the idea is not to let that throw both truths away, but to embrace both. Throwing away problems will only give you the perception that they have been solved.. in reality it is only because your no longer looking that it seems fixed.
You said that "life is more enjoyable without religion".. its interesting that you think the goal of life is to be enjoyed?? Im not saying it isnt.. what did Jesus say about this? He did mention he came to give us life..
some of the statements you make indicate that the 'christianity' you knew wasnt really 'CHRISTianity', but rather just a reflection of a particular church and operation...
mm.. thats all for now :)
big love to you my old friend..
Are you telling me that if you didn't believe in god, that you'd have no respect for life and others? It sure seems that way from your post, and I must add that is a very negative view and shows a complete lack of morals.
ReplyDeleteYour point about the origin of my 'caring' is a complete non-sequitur "You care for people and the earth, therefore god exists". It has been postulated that altruism is a genetic trait brought about by natural selection. We see altruism in the animal kingdom too quite often, for example lion prides, helping each other out. "Safety in numbers". In many species, being altruistic can help them survive, therefore the trait is passed on by this fact alone.
Again you make the point that I'm blaming god for something. This is completely untrue, I'm not blaming god for anything, I'm not angry at the world. Even if I was angry at the world I wouldn't be blaming it on someone elses imaginary friend.
I'm still not sure about your point about complexity. Are you trying to say that paradoxes exist? or are you merely saying that things are true, and other things are true?
Are you trying to get me to embrace the "truth" that god exists through this argument? Because you havn't given any reason for it to have been a "truth". Faith is defined as a belief in something you can't prove, or have no evidence for. When I believed in god, I didn't have any 'evidence' for gods existence, I had a few arguments which upon closer inspection didn't really hold any weight. I had 'faith' that god existed.
What is the purpose of life? What is the meaning of life? I believe there is no inherent 'meaning' to life but my personal view is that the meaning of life is to give life meaning.
You have just committed the 'no true scotsman fallacy' in saying that I wasn't a 'true' christian.
Goodbye for now anonymous. I await your reply.
two points:
ReplyDeleteregardless of your views (christian or atheiest in this case) apes and cats have an extremely important value for the earth. The balance in nature is essential. Each part of what makes up the earth is essential and humans operate as a part of this world. They often shape it negatively (pollution, deforestation) but can have positive impacts. My opinion though is that the arrogance of humanity has negative effects. :D
The second point is quite specific. The female meerkat who forgoes having children in order to help her sister raise her children is altruistic. "Safety in numbers" is not an example of altruism, it's an example of working together :D
Hey KJ, I like your blog its quite interesting. It’s funny how the comments have grown exponentially since you've started talking about something controversial! Although I'm a Christian I share many of your qualms about Christianity and the Bible.
ReplyDeleteFor example:
Many Christians ramble on about how "truth" (i.e. right and wrong) are absolute.
They would then proceed to justify that things such as abortion are wrong in all circumstances because it is murder and God said that murder is wrong therefore it must be an absolute truth.
Yet it appears that they want it both ways, because God himself defies the rules of absolute truth e.g. by killing (murdering) all the first born children in Egypt?
I personally don't understand how God can murder yet tell us not to whether there is such a thing as absolute truth or not. i.e. "do as I say not what I do!”
Another thing is that there do "appear" to be contradictions in the Bible, but I'm sure that a lot of them could be reconciled by having a better understanding of the cultures they were written by, or being able to read the languages they were written in. My problem with this is that for some people these contradictions are a hindrance to faith, yet you pretty much have to be a scholar to do be able to reconcile them. This seems too complex and time consuming a task for something as “simple” and important as “saving” people’s souls... Why would God allow it to be so complex - surely someone with such an imagination could think of a simpler process?
Jamie
David, I completely agree with you with everything you said in that post. And thanks for giving a proper example of altruism in nature, I couldn't think of anything specific at the time.
ReplyDeleteJamie, I had these 'qualms' about god and the bible for a fairly long time before deciding that I no longer believed in them, (natural progression perhaps?).
In the case of biblical contradictions, perhaps some of them only appear to be contradictions, but most of them are irreconcilable let me give a few examples.
Who brought Joseph into Egypt?
Genesis 37:36
And the Midianites sold him [Joseph] into Egypt.
Genesis 39:1
And Joseph was brought down to Egypt; and Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh, captain of the guard, an Egyptian, bought him of the hands of the Ishmaelites.
How did Judas die?
Matthew 27:5
And he [Judas] cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Acts 1:18
Now this man [Judas] purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
There are many, many others just like these some more serious than others.
There is a rather large list of them at http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html
all you need to do is search google and you'l find answers to those so called "contradictions"
ReplyDeleteAnonymous person, I've already read many of the supposed answers to dozens of the contradictions, and they do not hold up to scrutiny. Read my latest blog post to see perhaps one of the most serious contradictions in the NT.
ReplyDeleteGod is that which no greater can be conceived.
ReplyDeleteIf god is only an idea, then something greater can be conceived and that is that god exist in reality.
Therefore, God is real.
Oh no you didn't just use the ontological argument.........
ReplyDeleteJust because you conceive something doesn't mean it exists, or that is is greater in reality than in thought.
Here is an equally moronic parody of your ontological argument that (jokingly) proves the opposite. (by Douglas Gasking)
1. The creation of the world is the most marvellous achievement ever.
2. The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
3. The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator the more impressive the achievement.
4. The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.
5. Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being - namely, one who created everything while not existing.
6. An existing god therefore would not be a greater being than which a greater cannoy be conceived because an even more formidable and incredible creator would be a god which did not exist.
Therefore:
7. God does not exist.
Neither proves nor disproves the existence of god(s), both are moronic and laughable, only mine is intentionally so, yours is unintentionally so.