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Tuesday, August 4, 2009

Why I am an Atheist

I would like to start by explaining my upbringing. I was raised by two Christian parents who I love very much and that my “conversion” to atheism is not an act of rebellion in any way shape or form. I am an atheist primarily because upon closer inspection of the things I grew up believing in didn’t hold up to be true.

As most young children do, I believed in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, and later discovered that these ‘beings’ were just made up stories to make childhood seem magical. I don’t remember the specific time when I found out these things weren’t true, but I remember feeling underwhelmed by the simplicity of the situation, my parents had placed the money under the pillow, the presents in the sock and the marshmallow eggs hidden in various places around the house.

As I grew older I was told of stories in the bible, the genesis creation account, Adam and Eve, Noah’s Ark, The Tower of Babel, The Jews in captivity in Egypt and the story of Moses and the list goes on. I believed all these things much in the same way I believed in Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. I believed them not because I had discovered their veracity, but because I was told they were true stories. At around the age of 14 I was given a book by my auntie called “I Don’t Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist” by two Christian authors by the names Norman Geisler and Frank Turek, this book was the beginning of my passion for Christian apologetics. I essentially became a religious fundamentalist at the age of 14 which scares me in hindsight. By the age of 18 I had read probably almost two dozen apologetics books (some being very large), my brain being the sponge it is I soaked it all up. I also spent a considerable amount of time watching creationist videos on VHS, DVD and on the internet.

It was around the age of 17 when I began to start realising some of these stories I had been told to have been true were not so true. The first bubble to be burst was the idea that the earth was young, so I turned from a young-earth creationist to an old earth creationist. Other stories soon followed; those of Noah’s ark, Adam and Eve, Moses in Egypt and so on. By the time I had finished high school I no longer believed many of the tales which I had been told so emphatically as a young nipper were the word of god.

The very act of searching through the bible trying to find ‘excuses’ as to why other parts of the bible weren’t true was tiring to say the least. I became a closet agnostic around early 2008, and over the course of the year my morals and beliefs slowly morphed their way into what they are today. After much consideration, reading and deep thought, in early 2009 I no longer considered myself an agnostic, but an atheist, not believing in any supernatural forces inside or outside the universe. My passion for Christian apologetics had turned into a passion for knowledge, and the search for truth, which I will continue till the day I die.

52 comments:

  1. wow what has happened Kj, u of all ppl i thrt wud nt gv up on their faith? nd yes some things cannot b explaind bt surely what you felt was real? its nt all abwt the facts as we as mere humans can nt and will nva b able to explain and prove everythng. this is where your personal experiences with christ kick in.. surely u cnt dismiss the touch of the holy spirit and all the miracles. i hope you dnt spend ur whole life searching for this 'truth' that cn nva b found thru books... wheres the faith and love gone??

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  2. I'm not sure who you are Anonymous, but I'll respond anyway.
    I was never a fan of 'blind faith', which is why I was so interested in apologetics. The more I read into apologetics and into science, history and developed my own sense of morality and right and wrong, the more I began to abhor the bible and its grotesque moral teachings.
    The things that drew me most away from faith was reading something in the bible that is just plain wrong, or reading a command from god that I find detestable, for example Jesus scolding the pharisee's for not murdering their disobedient children.
    To add insult to injury, every 'prophecy' that I received from fellow christians, was at best vague, and at worst a blatantly made up lie.

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  3. Interesting post KJ, I too have thought along similar times over the last few years. I still would'nt say I am an athiest, on even antagonist but am still trying to figure that one out.
    The main thing that has done it for me is watching two movies. 'Zeitgeist' and also 'Religilous'. The point that these movies both brought up is that christianity is exactly the same as most other ancient religions. In fact, in ancient egyptian religion, the story of Horus is near exactly the same as the story of jesus, all the details of death, life, birth, betrayal, crusifiction, everything is exactly the same. Zeitgeist also looks at many other ancient religions and all points they both make. This particular movie also looks at how religion is related to the zodiac, change of seasons, stars, the sun etc.
    Very very interesting movie, check it out here
    (have tried to post a link, but look it up on google video).

    cheers, Tim B

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  4. do you reject that theres is a god? or just the ideas of organized religion?

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  5. atheist
    –noun
    a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

    I take this one step further in saying that I don't believe in anything supernatural.

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  6. well im not perfect but when my 19yr old best friend suddenly died of a heart attack it really rocked me initially it turned me from God then when i learnt about the love of Jesus Christ and the gift of eternal life, thru reading the NT myself, it turned me back to him ... one thing i know is that when my heart stops beating i want to be in heaven... xtianity offers hope where none else can be found, both in life and in death

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  7. I entirely understand your perspective (KJ) - especially since I started my Biomed degree this year, and have been more and more exposed to the details and logic of evolution (amongst other things). It seems the more knowledge people are exposed to, the more they question religion or the supernatural; I mean, if God does exist, then if we delve further into the bible and science (as you and many others have), then we should find the argument of 'God' to be increasingly compelling? Why is this not so? If we search for 'truth' as it says in the bible, and not just attempt to reinforce our childhood beliefs, then the REAL TRUTH will be uncovered, whatever that may be - God or no God, natural or supernatural. At this stage however, I still want to believe in a higher power... I still cannot understand how each of my individual atoms possess no life, no order, and no conscienceness - however once amalgamated into "me" or "you" each individual atom still has no "life", but as a community of atoms, somehow we have life? I am hoping to find the answer to that some day =)

    - William.

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  8. Hi KJ,

    I haven't spoken to you in a while but upon reading this i have to say something. You know, i was really scared at parties when i'd see you/old christian friends, because id think you were judging me etc. But i see now that we are on similar wavelengths and it made me smile :)
    Your replies to 'anonymous' were of a respectful manner, unlike the responses! I am currently agnostic, no one knows what will happen when we die, i think that everything is a theory. I dont believe in heaven or hell. My aim in life is to become as enlightened as possible through expanding my consciousness. Hope we can catch up one day :)

    Chai
    x

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  9. Hey KJ,

    Its real good to hear that you still love your parents and I'm sure they will still continue to love you even though you'll all be going through a hard time because of your new direction in life.

    This is the same with God, there's nothing we can do to make Him love us less but there are things that certainly grieve Him. God still loves every single one of us, Christian or not. Jesus still died on the cross for us, He didn't die to save a specific group of people that believed a certain faith but for mankind in its entirety.

    I'm not writing to try convince you to change your mind KJ, God gave the world free will for a reason, we're allowed to choose our own way in this world and God will honour this gift and let you do what you want. But just know God's waiting for your return, He's got heaps of patience so don't feel bad for keeping Him waiting. God wants us to go to Him just as we are, in our own time, when we want to and not because we're pressured or guilted into it. For most of the people in this world it'll never happen but He'll still be waiting for each one of them to find their way.

    I hope you find whatever you're looking for KJ.

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  10. Thanks for the comments everyone I really appreciate it.

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  11. so just out of interest, what do you think about the idea that for there to be a DESIRE for something in us as humans, there then MUST be somewhere, something to FULFILL that desire? eg. everything you can think of such as food, sex?
    so, for there to be this desire in us to live forever... there must be somehow, somewhere, a place where we somehow live on even after the body stops breathing?

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  12. I love you bro, I always will. Nothing will ever change that. I guess I can understand now how you felt all those years ago about me!

    Rachel

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  13. Desire/fantasy for something doesn't make it exist unfortunately, otherwise there would be money trees, and leprechauns with pots of gold at the end of every rainbow.

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  14. The people who are trying to say "He's waiting for you to come back"... KJ might not want to say this himself, but I sure will say it for him (and everyone else who shares his views, myself included): Go fuck yourself!

    You know, I too had the realisation that this was false, quite a while ago. Obviously, I grew up being taught it (not very actively, but it was there), and I began to question it not long after I also realised (long before anyone told me) that Santa and similar beings weren't real. I thought "Now wait a minute. How does God seem any more real then them?" So I thought about it, and eventually came to the conclusion - he doesn't!

    The time most of you knew me was, if anything, a time of weakness where I felt as if I had nothing and was willing to go even to that extreme, just on the chance there was something in it and I had been wrong. It didn't take me long to realise there wasn't. What did I get for it? Eternal life? Nope, just a couple of hours a week wasted on listening to some old guy who can't shut the fuck up about his imaginary friend. I'm not saying that the old guy himself is a bad person, simply that he needs a dose of reality!

    Consider this (and no, this isn't my own original content, it's a line I've heard elsewhere): "When one man has an imaginary friend, he's mentally unstable. When many people have the same imaginary friend, it's religion."

    -Stephen

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  15. to that last comment, im sure you are wrong.. kj would nt b thnkng go fuck yourself as everyone is entitled to their opinions and surely in writing this blog he would of expectd that response. so stop the swearing and anger in your responses, it doesnt show maturity or knowledge in fact it just makes a mockery ov all that u said. kj i stick to my first and only comment i made on this page, where is the love? i understand what you are going through we all get to a point where we look else where but please dont jus rely on science.. as we all knw it is jus theory and science has never proven christianity to b false in fact it has turned scientists towards christ in many cicumstances. all i ask is for u to stay open, and dnt close your mind off to the other possibilities altogether.

    i do pray that you will find your way back one day :)

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  16. To anonymous.
    I havn't 'lost love' or anything like that. As a matter of fact, not a lot has changed about me besides my religious views. Some of my values have shifted, but I'm not some entirely different person.

    I wouldn't describe as my journey away from faith like you have. I didn't look elsewhere, I looked at christianity itself and it led me away from it.

    Not to sound patronising, but do you know anything about science? or scientific definitions such as 'theory'.
    This 'theory' of science is what makes us live for so long, and cures so many diseases, produces electricity, designs computers, cars. Every technology and commodity that you we take for granted has come to us through science.
    We don't need science to prove christianity wrong though, although it helps us understand just how ridiculous some of the bible is.
    Christianity proves itself wrong.

    I am open minded. Open minded doesn't mean accept people beliefs no matter how un-supported by the evidence they are. I don't go around accepting all the stupid things that every person says, otherwise my brain would be filled with absolute garbage, like psychics, astrology, ghosts and other superstitions, like belief in god.
    I'm open to any possibilities that aren't ridiculous or completely un-supported by facts.

    Ok, while you're praying for me, I'll be thinking for you, how about that.

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  17. how does christianity prove itself wrong?

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  18. Christianity's best self-refutations are the exceedingly numerous irreconcilable contradictions in scripture and doctrine.

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  19. and what might some of those be..
    and ones that YOU have done the research on..
    not just ones that you've read in some some bias'ed athiest book and taken it on as truth..

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  20. Okay, so if I read a 'biased' atheist book and take it on as truth, I'm being closed minded by your reasoning? But would you hold the same standard to any other book such as the bible?

    Some contradictions include things like different accounts of the same stories, reporting different facts on the same event. Things like were there one angel or two at the tomb of jesus, did the resurrected christ first appear to the disciples in a house in jerusalem or on a mountain in galilee? Did jesus come to bring peace or the sword? Are all men and women created equal or are women subservient to men as paul teaches? The two different creation accounts in genesis (genesis 1 and 2) are contradictory. Is God merciful and just, or a bigoted cruel infanticidal mass-murderer?

    Those are the first few that come to mind. There are hundreds more where they came from. If you want scriptural references just ask, but I promise you that the contradictions are numerous and obvious.

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  21. oh my.. mann i cant believe someone would leave faith in someone because of something like that..
    different accounts? ofcourse! they were different people! If you and I were to both describe a story, we had nothing but our memories to carry the story untill we found some ancient ink and paper, ofcourse our stores will be slightly differnet and rather subjective.. but does either negate the truth of the story??

    do you even know the purpose of the genesis writing?
    First - youd know this. Modern theologians put the numbering system in place. SO read the whole of genesis to get an understanding of it in context.

    Moses wrote the book for a purpose.. is genesis one even purposed as an acount of truths and facts.. or was it a poem to the people of the day?? Why dont you read this and let me know your thoughts..
    for a bit of interesting, light (not) reading go here..

    http://www.asa3.org/ASA/topics/Bible-Science/6-02Watts.html

    God is mercify & Just.. bigoted, cruel, infanticidal & mass-murderer are words described at Gods actions by someone who doesnt understand why he did them. Who has done little or no study into the righteousness and holiness of God.

    God has done these things to us, we first pulled the finger at him...

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  22. You obviously do not really know me. I've read all your arguments before when I used to be a christian I even used to do exactly what you're doing and try to convince atheists that the bible is true. If you'd read this original blog post thoroughly you would have known this. You're talking down to me as if I have no idea about the content of the bible and christian arguments for it.

    I would like to know why you believe the bible is true. Because everything you've said so far makes the assumption first that the bible is true, and you go from there.

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  23. To put what KJ's saying into a context that even someone as stupid as a creationist can (hopefully) understand:

    Firstly, assume the bible is FALSE. Then, try and find something to prove this assumption wrong. Until you can do that, your arguments hold no value.

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  24. Namida, i get it.. im no dumb ass..

    cool - the only thing is that this blog is not about me and my believes. whos to say i even believe? im only asking why it is you have stopped believing?

    there is more than one level of 'knowing' something.. science, facts, figures is one way.. what about things we cannot measure. thought, consciousness?
    Christians believe there is a level of knowing called revelation. Did you have this as a Christian?

    what is does it mean to be human?

    did you even read the discussion on genesis or did you just disregard it?
    it seems your view points are build on the basis that in your limited knowledege you cannot figure out that things are the way they are and therefore disregarding them..
    i would advise you to never get a girlfriend.. even after 10 years with her your not going to have a clue what life will be like with her for the next 10..
    somethings just cant be explained.

    BTW, whats the point of assuming falseness of the bible? If im to KNOW something, i first need to find someone who knows and look at that thing as if I was in their skin. To know about a car, I cant just look at it and disregard the whole thing because I dont know how it works, i need to enter the world as a mechanic.
    Having a premise that something is first FALSE, is the stupidest thing iv ever heard if your looking for its TRUTH..

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  25. Give me one example (legit example) of how revelation is "knowing". Don't give some lame analogy about how you knew someone who had a revelation that something was going to happen that day and it happened. Hearsay doesn't count as evidence of anything.

    I'm willing to bet that as neurological science develops more, that we'll understand exactly how consciousness works, or at least have some understanding. I find it rather annoying when super-naturalists criticise naturalists for saying that nothing super-natural exists, when they have no good reasons for why they believe in super-natural occurences themselves. You gave the perfect example just now.
    "what about things we cannot measure. thought, consciousness?"
    Great, so you're taking a field of science that you know nothing about (neurological science) and assuming that it's not a physical process. Science goes on the naturalistic assumption that nothing is super-natural, because if something was super-natural we wouldn't be able to test it, and wouldn't be able to learn about it. So far, the more we go by this assumption and study the universe around us, the more we discover that many of the things that other cultures (and our own) believed to be super-natural are in fact caused by natural processes.

    No, I did not read the dicussion on genesis, but I read probably two dozen discussions and books on the same topic when I was struggling with reconciling my beliefs with the facts when I was a christian.

    "it seems your view points are build on the basis that in your limited knowledege you cannot figure out that things are the way they are and therefore disregarding them.."

    It seems your view points are built on the premise that since you don't know about how the world works, you assume that it's super-natural and that 'god did it'. That's intellectually dishonest and bankrupt.

    "somethings just cant be explained."

    Some things just can't be explained YET.

    Last paragraph made no sense. Your analogy was terrible. Want to know why? You're making the assumption AGAIN, that I know nothing about the bible and that I'm disregarding it because I don't know enough about it. This couldn't be further from the truth. I've thrown away my belief in the bible and god BECAUSE of what I learned about the bible. The more I knew about the bible, the more I chose not to believe in it.

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  26. Is there *anything* on earth dumber than a christfag?

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  27. so in your own words you are saying you have faith that things will be discovered.. you just dont have the faith that God will be found real.. because he hasnt been apparently by science.. "yet"..

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  28. KJ has not once outright denied 100% that there is a God, and has even in one post admitted that there may be one. What he HAS done, very well, is denied that the god of Christianity is real or that the bible is true.

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  29. Anonymous, I do not have faith in anything.

    faith
    –noun
    1.belief that is not based on proof
    2.belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion
    3.confidence or trust in a person or thing

    I do not have faith in anything. I believe that science will continue to discover things about the world, because the scientific method has a proven track record in this regard. This 'belief' is backed up by evidence, therefore is not faith.

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  30. KJ. Would you agree that you have:

    3.confidence or trust in Dawkins or science

    ???

    Therefore, dare I describe you using another word with spiritual connotations.... as faithful? ;)

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  31. Yes, but then I would refer you back to the first definition.
    "1.belief that is not based on proof".

    Science has a track record of discovering things. Based on this track record of evidence, I have confidence that science will discover more things and find more evidence to back up the things that have already been discovered.

    I really don't understand the christian obsession with trying to portray atheism or science as a religion. It really is an obsession.

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  32. But KJ, be honest... :)

    YOUR belief is not based on "1st hand" proof as such. It's based on

    3. confidence or trust in Dawkins or science
    3. confidence or trust in text books
    3. confidence or trust in people with a PhD
    3. confidence or trust in the chaps in the white coats
    ...I'll leave it there :D

    I'm not saying this is a bad thing by the way, just bringing it into the light ;) For scientists, I too respect. Dawkins in particular?...I'd say he has some issues, not unlike all of us though ;)

    Haha, I like your last comment. Here's one from me:

    I really don't understand the Atheist's obsession with trying to portray the God of the universe as a psychopath. It really is an obsession ;)

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  33. Your belief in god/the bible is not based on anything at all.

    I'll leave that there.

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  34. KJ, I've already told you what my belief is based on man! It's in my other post on your other blog :D You highlighted after it the fact that I said:

    "I have chosen to believe".

    YES it is a deliberate decision and I think that is the beauty of it. Everyone has the choice to say
    "Yeyahh, I'm on board" or
    "No, that sounds retarded"

    And yes I know you're all for the second one... ;D

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  35. Ok.. so it's based on a choice.

    Choosing to believe something doesn't make it true though.

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  36. Choosing to believe ANYthing will never prove it true any more than choosing not to believe the same thing will prove it false. That's why it's a belief, it's not about proof.
    I can never prove Gods existence.
    Likewise, you can never prove Gods non-existence.
    Claiming belief in a God is but a vulnerable statement of faith in something greater than yourself.
    Claiming belief in no God is rather an incredibly bold statement that says you know all things! Think about it for at least a little while...

    "There is no such thing as God" "There is no supernatural higher power out there anywhere"

    ...just say those words out loud and listen to the sound of your own voice. You are stating that this potential 'God' being does not exist in all the universe/beyond of which no one has or will ever come close to exploring. If that is a difficult one to wrap a brain around try a really "stupid" one like:

    "There is no such thing as giant pink unicorns with huge green webbed feet" "They don't exist anywhere"

    We can acknowledge what we have discovered and accept it. But we can never refuse to acknowledge that which we haven't discovered and deny it.

    I know, that you have said something along the lines of, but not in these exact words, "I have seen no God yet, but maybe there's one out there". Correct me if I am mistaken on your stance.

    I say this is not Atheism. Last time I looked, Atheism was the stubborn denial of ANY God for now and forever. This is the very reason the religious find it to be a greater statement of "faith" so to speak :D

    Maybe the definition of Atheism changed recently? Has their 'doctrine' (dare I say it) presented a need for re-evaluating? ;)

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  37. I cannot prove fairies don't exist.
    I cannot prove Invisible Pink Unicorns don't exist.
    I cannot prove the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist.
    Just because we can't prove god doesn't exist doesn't mean that it does exist.
    You said you can't prove god does exist, so what makes you so sure that it does exist?

    I like your use of words with negative connotations in your description of atheism, "stubborn denial". If that is what you say atheism is, then my definition of christianity is this:
    Christianity: A misogynistic religion that thrives on ignorance, based upon bronze age jewish scribblings that were compiled during the reign of constantine who used the religion to control the people.

    atheist
    –noun
    a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

    And here you go again trying to add religious words to atheism, you really are obsessed with the idea that atheism is a religion.

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  38. *sigh* KJ, for the answer to why I am so sure, read my posts on the 'Big Bible Picture' AGAIN and also read the 'Why I Believe' post AGAIN :)

    But know that I am not trying to prove God's existence to be 100% fact. Like I said in the other post (flip, there's so many now) "who can attempt to do that?" :D

    I'm sorry if the words "stubborn denial" caused offence ;) Reading them twice, I would put them in our "Needless To Say" bucket along with blind faith and wet water. All denial is more or less stubborn, I guess. But... :)...please read your own dictionary definition again...

    atheist
    –noun
    a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

    Denial, I'm afraid :D
    I drop the insulting adjective "stubborn" (for it is really needless to say)

    It's been said that there's a fine line between living in denial and faith... and I've find life to have far better purpose on the faith side.

    LOL. Concerning "my obsession with trying to add religious words to Atheism".... people will always simply say it how it is, KJ. See something, then describe it. You don't have to take my description on board.

    You're not religious KJ and that's ok :)

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  39. Denial doesn't assume that connotation at all!
    Deny simply means to declare something untrue, it's the antonym of accept/admit/allow.

    A stubborn denial is about as far from my position as you could possibly get. In fact I was stubborn in regard to letting go of my faith, I WANTED it to be true so bad, but I couldn't lie to myself any longer.

    A 2 year de-conversion process is hardly what you would call stubborn, it was a gradual process, and I have in no way 'closed off' my mind. I'm open to any rational view. I like rational reasons for peoples views. I like evidence.

    And don't worry you're not the only person who tries to add religious words to atheism. The evangelical fundamentalists love trying to label non-religion as religion, they even try to label evolution as a religion!
    I'd suggest not trying to do like they do unless you want to be lumped in with them, the laughing stock of the rational world (anti-science evangelical fundamentalists aka. creationists).

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  40. Answer me this:

    "In fact I was stubborn in regard to letting go of my faith"
    "A 2 year de-conversion process is hardly what you would call stubborn"

    Which was it, KJ? Stubborn or not?

    I think both denial and faith require stubbornness if either are to be sustained. Wouldn't you agree?

    Thank you for your concern but I am aware I'm not the only one ;) Even Facebook, the largest social networking site of the world, considers Atheism to be a "Religious View". You classify yourself as this, correct? Why then does it cause you grief? You should be proud to follow this apparent religion of Atheism :)

    I agree that Evolution is not a religion as it has nothing to do with a spiritual viewpoint. It is but an understanding of nature. The spiritual world is a supernatural one, not confined to the scientific laws of the universe.

    And don't YOU worry, I'm not afraid of being lumped in with the laughing stock of the rational world. Jesus warns his followers they will be mocked till Kingdom come.

    Literally...till Kingdom come.

    KJ, I've told you a few times now that I'm not anti-science. Science is dandy. I am anti-Atheism. Not to be confused with anti-Atheist! There's absolutely no desire in me to pull a Hitler or something similar and attempt to 'cleanse' the world of unbelievers or anything. That kind of authority I believe only God has. He's demonstrated it before and has promised to do it again only at the end of all things.

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  41. The two quotes were pulled out of context.
    I was stubborn in my departure from faith, I didn't want to let go. You were calling my atheism stubborn, which it isn't, my christianity was stubborn, and that was what I was talking about.

    'Religious view' is completely different to 'Religion'. If we were to go with your example of facebook 'Religious View' being a religion. Then 'none', 'don't have one', 'Jesus', 'Don't care', and ' ' would all be religions.

    My 'Religious view' is an atheistic view on religion, that all religion is man-made and pointless. You can't honestly think that is a religion.

    I've yet to see a real reason to believe a spiritual/supernatural world even exists.

    Nice mis-use of the word rational, and turning my sentence around... not.

    You're anti-atheism? Cool, I'm anti-non-stamp-collectorism.
    Anti-atheism is a double negative, it's a denial of a denial.

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  42. *sigh* :D I'm over this 'Religious view' or 'Religion' thing now. Bury it.

    I don't see how I mis-used the word 'rational' as it was a straight copy and paste from your post.

    Double negative? Denial of a denial? Not really, I don't deny that Atheists exist :D

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  43. You mis-used the word rational because you were using it to describe the believers as opposed to the non-believers, when rationality has nothing to do with this distinction.

    Rational
    Adjective
    1. agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible: a rational plan for economic development.
    2. having or exercising reason, sound judgment, or good sense: a calm and rational negotiator.
    3. being in or characterized by full possession of one's reason; sane; lucid: The patient appeared perfectly rational.
    4. endowed with the faculty of reason: rational beings.


    When as you have described, you 'choose' to believe, reason and rationality have nothing to do with it.

    I never said that you deny that atheists exist. You said you were "anti-Atheism. Not to be confused with anti-Atheist!.
    You're denying that there is no god, which is a double negative.
    It's like saying this:
    There is not no god.

    I'm happy to bury the 'atheism is a religion' discussion, seeing as you were the one who kept bringing it up.

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  44. KJ, I was describing the Jesus followers as irrational! We are "the laughing stock of the rational world"! I was simply agreeing with what you said, not trying to flip it and say you're the irrational ones. 'Rationality' is like a cornerstone of Atheism.

    Meh, screw double negatives, I prefer to just get rid of them both and say it how it is. "I believe there is a god."

    Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that I'm against the idea of "No god" (anti-Atheism) but I don't hate the people (anti-Atheist) who believe that! Similar to a Christian stance on homosexuality.

    And with regards to the Atheism/Religion thing, I say again, I was just describing what I see. But sweet as, we'll leave it there then.

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  45. Ah upon re-reading what you wrote I realise I misread one sentence "Jesus warns his followers they will be mocked".

    I saw where you were coming from with regard to the anti-atheism issue, but I still thought it was pointless, as your attitude towards atheists and atheism was shown through what you had been writing.

    Probably going to write a new post today or tomorrow or something.

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  46. Sorry to necro this blog post's comments :P

    Dear anonymous or other posters supporting the bible - you are very annoying passive aggressive creationist jerkwads. Harsh, but accurate. You constantly profess to not want to convert KJ, or others like him, yet you don't have the decency to not preach within every comment.

    This particular nugget blew my mind:

    By Aaron

    "I'm not writing to try convince you to change your mind KJ, God gave the world free will for a reason, we're allowed to choose our own way in this world and God will honour this gift and let you do what you want. But just know God's waiting for your return, He's got heaps of patience so don't feel bad for keeping Him waiting. God wants us to go to Him just as we are, in our own time, when we want to and not because we're pressured or guilted into it. For most of the people in this world it'll never happen but He'll still be waiting for each one of them to find their way."

    So you basically said... I'm not going to try and change your mind, but here goes anyway! Initiating religious spam!

    Hmm yes... God wants us to be not pressured or guilted into faith, but here is the same old guilt trip! Your entire post (well meaning as it may have been) is a massive contradiction.

    And... why oh why would KJ feel bad about keeping a non-existant entity waiting? You seem unable to get that through your heads. As an athiest, its not a blind denial of God or faith, it is a flat-out disbelief in the concept entirely based on available evidence. Once you are an athiest, there is no longer any confusion on the topic. There is zero proof of them, so God or gods do NOT exist. The only person(s) who will feel bad about KJ not being Christian anymore are Christian people.

    The average religious person is no less sane than anyone else, so why are they willing to believe something that in any other circumstance would be viewed as a pile of bullshit? One of the many mysteries of the human mind. Which for a religious person will remain a mystery, because they dont want to understand it.

    Anyway, long story short... please stop using the same old tired principles you always pull out. If you truly wish to not preach to KJ, or others like us, then dont. Have a discussion certainly, but dont dress up your diatribe as a peace offering when it is nothing of the sort.

    One last word... you may want to familiarise yourself with Occam's Razor, also look up the concept of the Celestial Teapot... or the Flying Spaghetti Monster for that matter. I don't presume to believe that I will convert any of you, but if you are going to preach at us, I can do the same sort of thing back at you... except with, you know, evidence. :P

    -Mick

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  47. You mentioned both your parents are Christian. What was their reaction to your newfound beliefs? Just curious :)

    F Adams

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  48. You could say they reacted unfavourably.

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  49. Praying/Thinking Of YouJanuary 11, 2010 at 4:09 PM

    I remember when you were in the "Extreme Discipleship" training group!

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  50. Not to "reseurrect" this old blog but I recently stumbled upon it after watching Jesus Camp via Netflix streaming. I am agnostic and try hard to listen to both sides. Admittedly, I am not smart enough to know the answers, and I dont believe anyone else is either. (this coming from someone who is "supposed" to be somewhat intelligent as Im in mensa North Texas)

    I try to be non-biased and give credit where credit is due. But I find myself constantly siding with non-christians. Maybe because they are easy targets, or maybe its just because evolutionism gives reason and viable credibility to their side. Christianity tries to exploit "holes" in contra-beliefs in lieu of evidence. A la "I cant prove a damned thing, but your claim is stupid."

    The other thing I have found is you are under the attack in many of these comment, you simply try to defend yourself because Christians (and theyre so good at this) love to go on the offensive to anyone who contradicts them) HERETIC !!

    Good Luck in your search for truth, I am doing likewise.

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  51. Chris Haines ladies and gentlemen

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  52. Actually I think Chris posted his comment from the USA

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